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Post by jamnjon on Feb 11, 2023 18:38:30 GMT -8
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Post by sharksbrewer on Feb 11, 2023 21:55:11 GMT -8
The Oilers were one round away from the finals last year and their defense has always been a weakness. Maybe they are thinking they just need to add an all-star d-man and that will take them over the top especially because it doesn't look like the Avs will repeat. There is no way they trade McDavid or Draisaitl so maybe there's a package of Oilers to trade for helping the 'financial hurdles', but the rest of their roster isn't all that exciting. Karlsson for Kane and draft picks anyone?  |
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Post by dilacerated on Feb 11, 2023 23:26:56 GMT -8
The Oilers were one round away from the finals last year and their defense has always been a weakness. Maybe they are thinking they just need to add an all-star d-man and that will take them over the top especially because it doesn't look like the Avs will repeat. There is no way they trade McDavid or Draisaitl so maybe there's a package of Oilers to trade for helping the 'financial hurdles', but the rest of their roster isn't all that exciting. Karlsson for Kane and draft picks anyone? What blows my mind is defense is their weakness. EK65 solves that? |
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Post by seiched on Feb 12, 2023 12:51:39 GMT -8
Doesn't make a ton of sense, however if it means your team scores 5 goals a game, then you can give up 4. Would need a 3rd team to take some cap hit because we don't want to have to take 1/2.
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Post by 408jc1991 on Feb 13, 2023 9:48:43 GMT -8
I have been hearing 40% retained is the desire. To me , that seems absolutely ridiculous , especially considering the way he is playing. I understand it may be an outlier to some , but I don’t think so.
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Post by seiched on Feb 13, 2023 9:55:20 GMT -8
He is finally 'earning' his cap hit this year. Having another team get him at a discount should cost them extra, especially if they are in Western Conference. 3 firsts and top prospect and whatever role players that need to come over to absorb cap hit. So basically the same as we paid for him.
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Post by sonofsnowshower2 on Feb 13, 2023 11:16:14 GMT -8
I read the Athletic article this morning. First off, after thinking about it, this is a very long longshot of a deal. And the article does give the reasons for that. But at the same time, the Oilers and Sharks *ARE* reportedly in communication. In regard to that, and invoking and debunking a truism, where there's smoke there is *NOT* always fire, meaning this may not lead to a deal. What makes it intriguing is that the Oilers are a contender (of sorts) that Karlsson might be willing to go to them.
My own thoughts on it are that Grier needs to stick to his asking price of 3 #1 picks (or at least 2 #1's). The salary retention part is complicated, but maybe he can flip one of the #1's to a team that will eat some salary to make the deal work? IDK, just a thought. Other thoughts are that there are teams that could find a way to take on a major chunk of Karlsson's salary, but I don't think EK65 would agree to go to one of those teams because, to state the obvious, why go from one bad team to another? No reason to disrupt your family for that. It may benefit the Sharks in terms of getting better draft picks out of the deal, but from Karl's point of view, again, why do it?
As for Karl on the Oilers and their already lousy defense, that's a problem, no doubt about that. The other side of that is that you would certainly inject more scoring into the Oilers (like they need it, right?), and their thinking might be that the uptick will offset the downside. But think of this, given the state of the defense, bringing in Karlsson won't make it qualitatively worse. It already sucks. It might just make their D better by virtue of increasing the Oilers' puck possession time. Think of what difference prime Joe Thornton made with the Sharks. He was a possession monster. And your opponent can't score without the puck (unless you screw up big time).
And to address Seiched's "earning" his cap hit...he's been the Sharks' best d-man for several seasons, even when he was relegated to Burns' over-sized shadow. Now that the sun is no longer blocked by that bearded skidmarker, Karlsson's showing what he's capable of. And for the record, the Corsi and other metrics bear out that EK65 was the best Sharks' d-man, full stop.
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Post by seiched on Feb 13, 2023 13:29:32 GMT -8
EK65 has been the best Sharks d-man since we traded for him, however the 'earning' part is that he is paid to impact the game at a superstar level (highest paid d-man). He is doing it this year, but the only other time I felt he was that kind of impact was the first year he was here...even on 1 leg at the time.
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Post by SurfCitySharksFan on Feb 13, 2023 13:39:36 GMT -8
My early reaction to the Karl to EDM speculation with 40% retention is No, Hell No, Fuck No! The reason you would be getting rid of arguably your best player is to get the contract off the books so that you can bring in some other players. I don't think that it makes any sense to have a sizeable chunk of that contract on the Sharks books while he is playing for a division opponent. Now if EDM wants to talk about a swap for our greatest need (1C) and their greatest need (D who can also score a lot), I'd be glad to talk about that with them. |
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Post by sonofsnowshower2 on Feb 13, 2023 15:04:36 GMT -8
My early reaction to the Karl to EDM speculation with 40% retention is No, Hell No, Fuck No! The reason you would be getting rid of arguably your best player is to get the contract off the books so that you can bring in some other players. I don't think that it makes any sense to have a sizeable chunk of that contract on the Sharks books while he is playing for a division opponent. Now if EDM wants to talk about a swap for our greatest need (1C) and their greatest need (D who can also score a lot), I'd be glad to talk about that with them. Ummmm...I'm guessing that 1C you're referring to shares a first name with Bedard?  |
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Post by briancpalmer on Feb 13, 2023 21:23:01 GMT -8
As a former Oilers fan until several years ago, I can say that if the reports today about EDM's offer for Karlsson are legit (and since they are coming from the team's de facto mouthpiece, Bob Stauffer, I have no reason to think this is not at least mostly on the mark) then we should take it and run: this year's first (which, given their history could end up being in the teens with how these guys flame out in the playoffs), Bouchard, Bourgault (these two essentially functioning as the two of the three 1sts we're reportedly seeking), Barrie, and Puljujarvi. This would be a coup for us.
This would be some serious all-in energy by a club that is desperate to finally help McJesus get a Cup, or at least get to a Cup final, and frankly I am all for taking advantage of them because of it. This smacks of them just wanting to outscore their opponents 80s style, and if they think that's going to work in the end, more power to 'em. I would take his deal in a heartbeat. The question, though, is will EK65 want to go there? (On a related note, while it would suck not to have peak EK65 anymore, I am drooling at the thought of seeing him paired with McDavid and Draisaitl, especially on their power play. Holy hell...)
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Post by NashvilleShark on Feb 14, 2023 8:39:22 GMT -8
...The question, though, is will EK65 want to go there? I'd be surprised to see Karl waiving his NMC to play in Edmonton for the next 4 years. He knows winning the Cup goes well beyond having 3-4 elite level players on the same team. Edmonton is going to be a fringe level Western Conference team in the playoffs, but if his goal is simply to have a shot then it might be enough for him. I'm probably reading too much into a comment Karl made at the All Star game with regard to playing 3 on 3 with Drai and McDavid, something to the effect of "when you get an opportunity to play with elite level players like them you jump on it". Maybe he surprises me and waives to go there? I can only hope that if there's a 40% retention involved that Grier gets a third team to carry 20% of that and SJ is getting a 2023 1st and a couple of A grade prospects back. |
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Post by sonofsnowshower2 on Feb 14, 2023 8:39:46 GMT -8
EK65 has been the best Sharks d-man since we traded for him, however the 'earning' part is that he is paid to impact the game at a superstar level (highest paid d-man). He is doing it this year, but the only other time I felt he was that kind of impact was the first year he was here...even on 1 leg at the time. I don't know exactly how we "reply" to posts, so I'm going with this. First, I'm not "arguing" with you about this. Just trying to add some context.
A while back (this season), in response to a question about the difference in his play this season and past seasons, Karl did mention that he didn't want to rock the boat, or words to that effect. I took that to mean that the PP ran through #88 and there was that "blast away from the blue line" approach. But a lot of the Sharks' game did that, not just the PP. Burns got the most minutes, hence he dictated a lot of what transpired. I've voiced my view that Burns without Pavelski was not nearly the weapon as Burns combined w/ Pavs.
I'm writing this as *speculation* about what happened in the past couple of seasons...Burns was a big personality, we might even say he dominated the locker room once Jumbo left (and Larry Robinson had some criticisms of the dynamic with Jumbo and young players, which LR voiced to the press). So basically (after my digressions), I *wonder* if we could have seen more of this level of EK65 had the coaching staff *and* the GM taken charge and forced the situation to change? What I mean is telling the team "the PP runs through #65, not #88." That would have created issues to be dealt with in the locker room, for sure. Frankly, the guy was an a-hole, but I gotta think that a PP with EK9's style, but with EK65 running things, would have been much better than what we saw for the years of Burns sans Pavs.
Just things I've wondered about.
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Post by briancpalmer on Feb 14, 2023 9:49:39 GMT -8
...The question, though, is will EK65 want to go there? I'd be surprised to see Karl waiving his NMC to play in Edmonton for the next 4 years. He knows winning the Cup goes well beyond having 3-4 elite level players on the same team. Edmonton is going to be a fringe level Western Conference team in the playoffs, but if his goal is simply to have a shot then it might be enough for him. I'm probably reading too much into a comment Karl made at the All Star game with regard to playing 3 on 3 with Drai and McDavid, something to the effect of "when you get an opportunity to play with elite level players like them you jump on it". Maybe he surprises me and waives to go there? I can only hope that if there's a 40% retention involved that Grier gets a third team to carry 20% of that and SJ is getting a 2023 1st and a couple of A grade prospects back. If he wants a shot (we'll just ignore further qualifications for the moment regarding said shot), EDM gives him that. If he wants (don't know if he cares) to further pad his stats for a few seasons, EDM might be the best place to do that with McJesus and Drai as targets. I suspect a part of him does want to jump at this chance to play with truly elite players, not just a potentially elite player in Timo (not quite there yet for me, but he's on the doorstep). Bouchard is a young former first-round (10th in 2018) d-man, which we need, while Bourgault (young C/RW, 2021 first-rounder) reads like an A/B prospect who projects as a top-6 winger. Those are big needs I'd be happy to see us fill in a trade. Frankly we could make use of Bouchard and Barrie if they were both included in the deal, which is why I'm shocked this would be the offer if this is 100% accurate (I imagine there are some nuances that aren't being reported). Karlsson's great, but if you give up two RDs to get one back...? Even if he is elite that's a bit much. Adding a first and taking a flier on someone like Puljujarvi or even Yamamoto, makes this trade full of possibilities. Having said all of this, I still have serious doubts that this happens now. This is still probably more of a summertime move (maybe even a draft day trade?), but it's still interesting to think about. |
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Post by tcsharkie11 on Feb 14, 2023 10:03:21 GMT -8
As a former Oilers fan until several years ago, I can say that if the reports today about EDM's offer for Karlsson are legit (and since they are coming from the team's de facto mouthpiece, Bob Stauffer, I have no reason to think this is not at least mostly on the mark) then we should take it and run: this year's first (which, given their history could end up being in the teens with how these guys flame out in the playoffs), Bouchard, Bourgault (these two essentially functioning as the two of the three 1sts we're reportedly seeking), Barrie, and Puljujarvi. This would be a coup for us. This would be some serious all-in energy by a club that is desperate to finally help McJesus get a Cup, or at least get to a Cup final, and frankly I am all for taking advantage of them because of it. This smacks of them just wanting to outscore their opponents 80s style, and if they think that's going to work in the end, more power to 'em. I would take his deal in a heartbeat. The question, though, is will EK65 want to go there? (On a related note, while it would suck not to have peak EK65 anymore, I am drooling at the thought of seeing him paired with McDavid and Draisaitl, especially on their power play. Holy hell...) |
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Post by seiched on Feb 14, 2023 12:05:36 GMT -8
sell while EK65's value is highest....barrie can be flipped for another 1st probably
Sharks aren't a contender for the life EK65's contract, so getting any assets is worth it....retaining salary is a big whoop. Don't need it because no UFA with any skills is coming to SJ. Retaining salary also should make him available for other teams too.
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Post by NashvilleShark on Feb 14, 2023 12:30:49 GMT -8
Having said all of this, I still have serious doubts that this happens now. This is still probably more of a summertime move (maybe even a draft day trade?), but it's still interesting to think about. I tend to fall into the summertime move camp. I also find it interesting that this is the second time EDM has entered the picture, so as you say maybe there's something to this? A deal between SJ and any team up against the cap is going to be complex. Maybe EDM is a team Karl is willing to go to, but Grier and Holland need time to make the financial side work. Maybe it becomes easier for both teams to make a deal during the draft or over the summer. One thing I also consider here is if Timo gets moved, then I could see Karl becoming more flexible with potential new destinations. It could be a long 17 days. |
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Post by sonofsnowshower2 on Feb 14, 2023 13:48:28 GMT -8
I'd be surprised to see Karl waiving his NMC to play in Edmonton for the next 4 years. He knows winning the Cup goes well beyond having 3-4 elite level players on the same team. Edmonton is going to be a fringe level Western Conference team in the playoffs, but if his goal is simply to have a shot then it might be enough for him. I'm probably reading too much into a comment Karl made at the All Star game with regard to playing 3 on 3 with Drai and McDavid, something to the effect of "when you get an opportunity to play with elite level players like them you jump on it". Maybe he surprises me and waives to go there? I can only hope that if there's a 40% retention involved that Grier gets a third team to carry 20% of that and SJ is getting a 2023 1st and a couple of A grade prospects back. If he wants a shot (we'll just ignore further qualifications for the moment regarding said shot), EDM gives him that. If he wants (don't know if he cares) to further pad his stats for a few seasons, EDM might be the best place to do that with McJesus and Drai as targets. I suspect a part of him does want to jump at this chance to play with truly elite players, not just a potentially elite player in Timo (not quite there yet for me, but he's on the doorstep). Bouchard is a young former first-round (10th in 2018) d-man, which we need, while Bourgault (young C/RW, 2021 first-rounder) reads like an A/B prospect who projects as a top-6 winger. Those are big needs I'd be happy to see us fill in a trade. Frankly we could make use of Bouchard and Barrie if they were both included in the deal, which is why I'm shocked this would be the offer if this is 100% accurate (I imagine there are some nuances that aren't being reported). Karlsson's great, but if you give up two RDs to get one back...? Even if he is elite that's a bit much. Adding a first and taking a flier on someone like Puljujarvi or even Yamamoto, makes this trade full of possibilities. Having said all of this, I still have serious doubts that this happens now. This is still probably more of a summertime move (maybe even a draft day trade?), but it's still interesting to think about. |
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Post by sonofsnowshower2 on Feb 14, 2023 13:51:36 GMT -8
I'd be surprised to see Karl waiving his NMC to play in Edmonton for the next 4 years. He knows winning the Cup goes well beyond having 3-4 elite level players on the same team. Edmonton is going to be a fringe level Western Conference team in the playoffs, but if his goal is simply to have a shot then it might be enough for him. I'm probably reading too much into a comment Karl made at the All Star game with regard to playing 3 on 3 with Drai and McDavid, something to the effect of "when you get an opportunity to play with elite level players like them you jump on it". Maybe he surprises me and waives to go there? I can only hope that if there's a 40% retention involved that Grier gets a third team to carry 20% of that and SJ is getting a 2023 1st and a couple of A grade prospects back. If he wants a shot (we'll just ignore further qualifications for the moment regarding said shot), EDM gives him that. If he wants (don't know if he cares) to further pad his stats for a few seasons, EDM might be the best place to do that with McJesus and Drai as targets. I suspect a part of him does want to jump at this chance to play with truly elite players, not just a potentially elite player in Timo (not quite there yet for me, but he's on the doorstep). Bouchard is a young former first-round (10th in 2018) d-man, which we need, while Bourgault (young C/RW, 2021 first-rounder) reads like an A/B prospect who projects as a top-6 winger. Those are big needs I'd be happy to see us fill in a trade. Frankly we could make use of Bouchard and Barrie if they were both included in the deal, which is why I'm shocked this would be the offer if this is 100% accurate (I imagine there are some nuances that aren't being reported). Karlsson's great, but if you give up two RDs to get one back...? Even if he is elite that's a bit much. Adding a first and taking a flier on someone like Puljujarvi or even Yamamoto, makes this trade full of possibilities. Having said all of this, I still have serious doubts that this happens now. This is still probably more of a summertime move (maybe even a draft day trade?), but it's still interesting to think about.Not sure who I'm posting a response to, but I'm responding to the "fringe level" description. EK65 took a so-so Ottawa team to the ECF's. I have to think that EDM is thinking that he can bring that mojo to a better team and take that team further. Otherwise, there's no point to obtaining him. |
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Post by briancpalmer on Feb 14, 2023 14:23:38 GMT -8
Having said all of this, I still have serious doubts that this happens now. This is still probably more of a summertime move (maybe even a draft day trade?), but it's still interesting to think about. I tend to fall into the summertime move camp. I also find it interesting that this is the second time EDM has entered the picture, so as you say maybe there's something to this? A deal between SJ and any team up against the cap is going to be complex. Maybe EDM is a team Karl is willing to go to, but Grier and Holland need time to make the financial side work. Maybe it becomes easier for both teams to make a deal during the draft or over the summer. One thing I also consider here is if Timo gets moved, then I could see Karl becoming more flexible with potential new destinations. It could be a long 17 days. And now I'm hearing on podcasts that apparently SJ has multiple options to where they believe they can actually do something at the deadline and not just this summer. Maybe this is BS to drive up interest, but considering how EK65's playing, I don't doubt it. This was already going to be a long 17 days with the Meier sweepstakes (have to think that goes down to the wire, so...), but this just adds to the intrigue. And don't forget this: if EDM swings for the fences and does a deal like this...and if they somehow miss the playoffs...this nets us a pick in the teens in addition to whatever we likely get from CAR/NJ for Meier (I can't see how anyone else is even in the picture at this point, though I would LOVE to see BUF go on a run these next couple weeks and swoop in at the last minute). Toss in, for the sake of argument, some combo of either Holtz or Mercer (I'd hold out for Nemec, but this seems like a nonstarter for NJ), Bouchard, Barrie, Bourgault and, say, Puljujarvi or Yamamoto, to say nothing of what we might recoup for Bonino, Reimer, et al., and this could prove to be one hell of a deadline. Three actual first round picks in this year's draft? Eklund and Bordeleau coming up next year (fingers crossed)? And if Barrie doesn't work out you can trade him at the the next deadline (or, if he does work out to the point that keeping him long term doesn't sound feasible [UFA after next seasons], maybe we trade him for even more). That's not a bad way to start the rebuild at all. |
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Post by dilacerated on Feb 15, 2023 14:20:52 GMT -8
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Post by seiched on Feb 15, 2023 17:02:26 GMT -8
I tend to fall into the summertime move camp. I also find it interesting that this is the second time EDM has entered the picture, so as you say maybe there's something to this? A deal between SJ and any team up against the cap is going to be complex. Maybe EDM is a team Karl is willing to go to, but Grier and Holland need time to make the financial side work. Maybe it becomes easier for both teams to make a deal during the draft or over the summer. One thing I also consider here is if Timo gets moved, then I could see Karl becoming more flexible with potential new destinations. It could be a long 17 days. And now I'm hearing on podcasts that apparently SJ has multiple options to where they believe they can actually do something at the deadline and not just this summer. Maybe this is BS to drive up interest, but considering how EK65's playing, I don't doubt it. This was already going to be a long 17 days with the Meier sweepstakes (have to think that goes down to the wire, so...), but this just adds to the intrigue. And don't forget this: if EDM swings for the fences and does a deal like this...and if they somehow miss the playoffs...this nets us a pick in the teens in addition to whatever we likely get from CAR/NJ for Meier (I can't see how anyone else is even in the picture at this point, though I would LOVE to see BUF go on a run these next couple weeks and swoop in at the last minute). Toss in, for the sake of argument, some combo of either Holtz or Mercer (I'd hold out for Nemec, but this seems like a nonstarter for NJ), Bouchard, Barrie, Bourgault and, say, Puljujarvi or Yamamoto, to say nothing of what we might recoup for Bonino, Reimer, et al., and this could prove to be one hell of a deadline. Three actual first round picks in this year's draft? Eklund and Bordeleau coming up next year (fingers crossed)? And if Barrie doesn't work out you can trade him at the the next deadline (or, if he does work out to the point that keeping him long term doesn't sound feasible [UFA after next seasons], maybe we trade him for even more). That's not a bad way to start the rebuild at all. I'll take this! |
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Post by kohnsharkosz on Feb 15, 2023 18:47:33 GMT -8
The thing about EK waiving his NMC for Edmonton: does he really want to be back in a locker room with the other EK?
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Post by bellizar on Feb 16, 2023 8:28:26 GMT -8
The thing about EK waiving his NMC for Edmonton: does he really want to be back in a locker room with the other EK? I don’t think that would be big problem, we still don’t know what was the biggest issue with EK besides personality issues that can be controlled, Jumbo and Pavs managed it so. Why can’t McDavid do it as well? Plus Evander always had issues when he was on losing team so I don’t think that’s a big issue for EK65. I can see Holland doing a trade like this: Bouchard + 1.st rounder + cap dump + if he wats 40% retained that’s lik 16 Milion in 4 years that should be like 2 first rounders but a 1 st and 2 nd could do It I think. So in sum: Karlsson + cheap roster player to EDM for 2 first a second + Bouchard +7 milion cap dump from the Oilers. I think this is reasonable for both sides. I don't know Holland would do this If i were the Oil GM i would do it and think about the future later. I hope GMMG would take this deal he should in my opinnion if he could get one more good B prospect that would be the best deal I guess. |
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Post by bellizar on Feb 16, 2023 8:50:38 GMT -8
I tend to fall into the summertime move camp. I also find it interesting that this is the second time EDM has entered the picture, so as you say maybe there's something to this? A deal between SJ and any team up against the cap is going to be complex. Maybe EDM is a team Karl is willing to go to, but Grier and Holland need time to make the financial side work. Maybe it becomes easier for both teams to make a deal during the draft or over the summer. One thing I also consider here is if Timo gets moved, then I could see Karl becoming more flexible with potential new destinations. It could be a long 17 days. And now I'm hearing on podcasts that apparently SJ has multiple options to where they believe they can actually do something at the deadline and not just this summer. Maybe this is BS to drive up interest, but considering how EK65's playing, I don't doubt it. This was already going to be a long 17 days with the Meier sweepstakes (have to think that goes down to the wire, so...), but this just adds to the intrigue. And don't forget this: if EDM swings for the fences and does a deal like this...and if they somehow miss the playoffs...this nets us a pick in the teens in addition to whatever we likely get from CAR/NJ for Meier (I can't see how anyone else is even in the picture at this point, though I would LOVE to see BUF go on a run these next couple weeks and swoop in at the last minute). Toss in, for the sake of argument, some combo of either Holtz or Mercer (I'd hold out for Nemec, but this seems like a nonstarter for NJ), Bouchard, Barrie, Bourgault and, say, Puljujarvi or Yamamoto, to say nothing of what we might recoup for Bonino, Reimer, et al., and this could prove to be one hell of a deadline. Three actual first round picks in this year's draft? Eklund and Bordeleau coming up next year (fingers crossed)? And if Barrie doesn't work out you can trade him at the the next deadline (or, if he does work out to the point that keeping him long term doesn't sound feasible [UFA after next seasons], maybe we trade him for even more). That's not a bad way to start the rebuild at all. EDM is winning the Pacific if they get Karlsson and like little upgrade in their bottom six. NJ fans are overrating Holtz Grier doesn’t like players like that no way in hell he wants another Labanc kind of player  if NJ dont give up Nemec + Mercer or / Hughes + they are not getting Meier, nor Carolina, I can only see Winnipeg/Buffalo maybe giving up a bunch of stuff to get Meier. The sleeper trade target for me in this trade deadline is Barbanov. I can see a team giving up a first rounder to get Barbanov + fourth/third pick. That’s a pretty fair and good trade for both sides. Bonnino maybe fetch a third or fourth at best Reimer same dont expect much for them. |
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Post by briancpalmer on Feb 16, 2023 12:17:37 GMT -8
And now I'm hearing on podcasts that apparently SJ has multiple options to where they believe they can actually do something at the deadline and not just this summer. Maybe this is BS to drive up interest, but considering how EK65's playing, I don't doubt it. This was already going to be a long 17 days with the Meier sweepstakes (have to think that goes down to the wire, so...), but this just adds to the intrigue. And don't forget this: if EDM swings for the fences and does a deal like this...and if they somehow miss the playoffs...this nets us a pick in the teens in addition to whatever we likely get from CAR/NJ for Meier (I can't see how anyone else is even in the picture at this point, though I would LOVE to see BUF go on a run these next couple weeks and swoop in at the last minute). Toss in, for the sake of argument, some combo of either Holtz or Mercer (I'd hold out for Nemec, but this seems like a nonstarter for NJ), Bouchard, Barrie, Bourgault and, say, Puljujarvi or Yamamoto, to say nothing of what we might recoup for Bonino, Reimer, et al., and this could prove to be one hell of a deadline. Three actual first round picks in this year's draft? Eklund and Bordeleau coming up next year (fingers crossed)? And if Barrie doesn't work out you can trade him at the the next deadline (or, if he does work out to the point that keeping him long term doesn't sound feasible [UFA after next seasons], maybe we trade him for even more). That's not a bad way to start the rebuild at all. EDM is winning the Pacific if they get Karlsson and like little upgrade in their bottom six. NJ fans are overrating Holtz Grier doesn’t like players like that no way in hell he wants another Labanc kind of player if NJ dont give up Nemec + Mercer or / Hughes + they are not getting Meier, nor Carolina, I can only see Winnipeg/Buffalo maybe giving up a bunch of stuff to get Meier. The sleeper trade target for me in this trade deadline is Barbanov. I can see a team giving up a first rounder to get Barbanov + fourth/third pick. That’s a pretty fair and good trade for both sides. Bonnino maybe fetch a third or fourth at best Reimer same dont expect much for them. Depends what the return ends up being if EDM gets EK65. If they're giving up Bouchard AND Barrie, then their defense actually gets worse. So, sure, they'll score more than they already are, but they'll also give up more than they're already scoring too. Also depends on what FV, LA, and SEA do. EDM's WC1 for a reason at the moment, and while EK65 would make them better, I still wouldn't be surprised if they not only didn't win the division, but missed the playoffs entirely (MN isn't far behind, and NSH has four games in hand). We'll see. How do we know Holtz is like Labanc? Also, I admire your passion, but even I know we'll be lucky to get Nemec OR Mercer, and we sure as hell aren't getting both of them (though you could convince me to take Nemec and Mercer if they didn't want to include this year's first in the deal). Hughes is a nonstarter in such discussions, as he should be. No one is going to give up a bunch of stuff to get Meier, which is why I hope GMMG focuses on quality rather than q uantity.
Barbie? I haven't heard one single thing out there about a trade for him. Have you?
Bonino/Reimer are just add-ins at this point. I don't expect to get much for them, I was just including them in the overall trade haul, so to speak, as on their own their deals won't amount to much. |
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Post by sonofsnowshower2 on Feb 16, 2023 12:56:55 GMT -8
A bit different angle, I hope the Sharks have someone in their FO that has some historical knowledge of TDL deals. I mean someone who's been in the room throughout the process and *knows* the back-and-forth of things. I think DW did ok in that department, but then screwed up in the re-signing area with the NMC/NTC, long term contracts. But having some knowledge of how things play out from receiving the initial feeler on a player, all the way through to consummating a deal, can be pretty important. I'm thinking that if someone knows that the initial offer might sound good, but we can do better as things draw toward the deadline. That's my *guess* about it.
It's also possible that someone makes an offer, but is making offers to other teams, and takes what they think is good and leaves us (or whomever) hanging in the wind. The movie Moneyball shows Billy Beane doing some finagling with other GM's, which is my point of reference.
My personal feeling is GMMG should listen. Not talk at first, but just listen, then say "I'll look into that." I had a boss a few years ago who did a very good job of personnel management by using that as his stock answer, then would do some investigation.
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Post by jamnjon on Feb 16, 2023 13:58:24 GMT -8
Barbie? I haven't heard one single thing out there about a trade for him. Have you? He did reference Barbie being a sleeper. That being said, I did make a huge stretch of a guess that maybe the Pens would go after Barbie when Drew mentioned multiple times how in an interview Crosby said something like "I really like how that Russian guy on your team plays." My thought process was that Crosby is probably one of the players that gets an above average say in his team's moves, though the fact that he didn't know Barbie's name doesn't make me super confident about the likelihood I'm right. |
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Post by bellizar on Feb 16, 2023 14:41:34 GMT -8
EDM is winning the Pacific if they get Karlsson and like little upgrade in their bottom six. NJ fans are overrating Holtz Grier doesn’t like players like that no way in hell he wants another Labanc kind of player if NJ dont give up Nemec + Mercer or / Hughes + they are not getting Meier, nor Carolina, I can only see Winnipeg/Buffalo maybe giving up a bunch of stuff to get Meier. The sleeper trade target for me in this trade deadline is Barbanov. I can see a team giving up a first rounder to get Barbanov + fourth/third pick. That’s a pretty fair and good trade for both sides. Bonnino maybe fetch a third or fourth at best Reimer same dont expect much for them. I agree with giving up Bouchard and Barrie for EDM is silly and won't happen, EMD would need another defensman the only way this happens i think if they get Karlsson and Ferraro as well or make another trade for D-man on the same day. i think is more realistic a Bouchard + Yamamoto + Puljujärvi + picks for Karlsson + bottom 6 guy from the team can be anyone who Ken Holland likes maybe Sturm, Lorentz, Eyssimont pick your poison. That way the roster and the money works aswell this way EMD upgrades their D in significiant way. But the cost is a young D + this years draft and next years draft is gone. I think thats not horrifying cost for a number 1 D who is getting his thrid Norris. With that upgrade they should be in the conversation to win the division in my opinion. My perspective on Holtz that he is a finisher a trigger man, kind of Labanc in a way that he is one dimensional really good at 1 thing and the rest is mediocre, he need good linemates to be effective. In my view Grier don't value this kind of players. I don't get the devils prospects hype stuff honestly so out of reality in my opinion. The Devils can get a 1 line winger who scores 40 goals for the next 8 years by the side of Hischier or J.Hughes, for Mercer who is third line guy right now in thier lineup with 0.5p per game have upside can be 60 point player in his peak decent midle 6 option + a young D in Nemec who is going to be in your lineup maybe 3 years from now and in 5 years he can be an impact second line guy, he's not Makar not a number 1 and I don't think he will be even a Number 2 D the more reallisty outcome for him is 3.D man. + this years first rounder thats going to be in the 20-s maybe you get second line D in 5 years or midle/bottom six guy IF you hit. For me thats not a big price. Obviusly i am not pro scout i can be wrong i just an armchair guy who reads and watch bunch of hockey stuff. All of the trades that are swirling in the media are deals that other teams happily pay. I want Grier to make a trade that the other team fans cry about and feel the pain of it like hell that was steep price and i don't think its worth it even the other GM feels woo that was tough to give up but this is the right decision. The fans are going appriciate Meier when he is playing on their team first line and scoring like a beast, that is when they realise oh that was great trade. On Hughes i understand he's realitve to Jack and blabla and yes he's good but he isn't a sure thing he's a good prospect he is not McDavid he is not Rasmus Dahlin, he has potential to be a 1-2 guy in 3-4 years. If Fitzgerald doesn't want to give that up i can live with that, but you have to pay if you want to get better, no one is going to give you a first line winger for scraps and maybe decent guys. On Barbie yes he's not in the focus that's why he is my sleeper guy. If I am GM who looks for a cheap good midle six guy who can support guys, Barbie is in my top 3-4 names. He's cost controled not a rental maybe I can get 50% retention on it aswell, I like the idea to trade for this guy. I can see a fit for him in Boston, Carolina, Washington, Pittsburgh, Colorado, Calgary. Maybe i am overvaluating him we will see it in 2 weeks. If we can get anything for Bonnino or Reimer i am happy with it if they stay thats fine aswell. |
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Post by bellizar on Feb 16, 2023 14:44:55 GMT -8
Barbie? I haven't heard one single thing out there about a trade for him. Have you? He did reference Barbie being a sleeper. That being said, I did make a huge stretch of a guess that maybe the Pens would go after Barbie when Drew mentioned multiple times how in an interview Crosby said something like "I really like how that Russian guy on your team plays." My thought process was that Crosby is probably one of the players that gets an above average say in his team's moves, though the fact that he didn't know Barbie's name doesn't make me super confident about the likelihood I'm right. I just see him as good complementary player who can fit in anywhere and help a line to be better. That's something GM value at the trade deadline and its a good cost efficent player right now with short term. |
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if NJ dont give up Nemec + Mercer or / Hughes + they are not getting Meier, nor Carolina, I can only see Winnipeg/Buffalo maybe giving up a bunch of stuff to get Meier.